Can't deal with marines

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Can't deal with marines

Post  Quecksilver on Thu 8 Mar 2012 - 23:39

Never can. Always the same. I die to upgraded marines mid or late game.
Either my roach rush does enough damage so i'm so far ahead that i can win, or i die to marines in late game.
I'm thinking about cheesing every zvt from now on.

You'll probably say banes and infestors. Well the opponents i play know how to split them. My infestors and banes can't do much.
If I get to broodlord infestor, they just go around my army and kill my base, if i move out. If i don't move out i get dropped to death.
I feel like loosing 70 to 80 percent of my zvt. The ones I win are either when they fail cheese or when my roach rush does tons of damage.

Need some advice. Will post some replays if anyone tries to help.
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Quecksilver
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Re: Can't deal with marines

Post  mmAudioslave on Fri 9 Mar 2012 - 8:30

Hey!
I think my zvt is pretty desent atm. There are some different things I want to point out that migth help.

Upgrades
Zergs players worst thing to see is a double engeneering bay. So if you spot that with mutas, try to snipe that 1st!
I go always double evo vs terran, and i start them before spire, witch should depent if you want mutas or not for terrans 1st 8-10min push or not. I personaly dont like fast mutas vs terran, i think upgrades are far more important to have.
So, my bulid order is meele upgrades-lair- banespeed-spire- meele level 2- inf pit-hive- meele level 3 + adrenal
I see many high level players go faster to mutas than this and go 1 evo. But i alsow see them loose vs double engeneering bay a lot. My theory is that you can hold any marine tank push at 8-10min with ling/bling + upgrades.

Making units
The games i loose to terran is if they outplay me in drops or i die to a timing attack, and its so easy to get greedy vs terran i think. So ive said to myself that at 8min i should start massing lings and a few blings. Same concept as vs toss. This is vs the 2 base marine tank push. Even if the terran player will go ahead in eco, i clear up all units they have made the wole game! and remember, if you have alot more units then the terran, you loose less units too compared to the terran. I know this is very basic, but easy to forget:
3ling vs 1 marine = you have 1 ling left
6lings vs 1 marine = you have 5-6lings left
This makes you able to drone increadably hard, you have units left to protect/mapcontroll/counter/dont let terran get 3rd, so no need for making units.
You should have 3 hatches atm and you are behind in eco, so what, you are zerg, you can make 20-25 drones every 30 sec almost from 3-4 hatches(last macro hatch).
Take 4th base after the push, and make spines on it!! else drops will kill it..

Macro hatch
Omg, this has revolutionized my zvt, how often dont you have sige tanks between your main and 3rd? Not just only can you at all time use your mins/gas, but if you get pined down, you have that macro hatch in your main that you can mass lings/ mutas to break sige wall. I know pro players dont do this often, they take a other base instead, but im sure you have seen a lot of full energy queens in your game before............. Sad

Tactics
-Like i said, if you get siged up, there is so important to be avtive with our mutas, i think zerg player use mutas alot wrong, they are so obsessed with killing tanks that they sacrifice alot of mutas in the prosess. Sure, if you can pick some tanks thats great, but i think the prupose with the mutas at this monent if to make the terranplayer unsecure and buy yourself time to make lings and rally behind. Terran players HATE to loose tanks! So they will stim like crazy to protected them, good! Suddenly you have the double amount of 2-2 lings cheers
-I have i tactic that i was thinking about for a long time ago, it was when i used only infestors in zvt. This didnt work so i had to get mutas to stop dropps. So, heres a suggestion, this is not tested very good, but i like the idea:
Start as normal with double evo, go mutas, but just make 5-6 mutas ALL GAME. you have some mapcontroll, stop drops, terran will make 6-8 missile turrets = 24-32 less marienes. Then you go infestor heavy. And tech fast to BL, by this i dont mean you go ultra fast and skip units, but when i played this style, i had BL at 15-16min!! With 5-8 inf to support.
Im not used to get dropped hard when im attacking with BL, but a idea to spine up in every base? Buys you alot of time!
And as you know, burrowed inf harras is pretty awsome =)

Mechanics
Ok, i already feel when i meet dia terrans i cant have lings on hotkey 1 and mutas on 2. So i need to have the blings on hoykey 3. I know you have the hatch on 3, and i think you should change it to 4 and queens to 5. Seen alot of high level players have this setup too.
So when atttacking terrans i like to 1st harras tanks with mutas, when you feel you have made enougth ling/bling attack 1st with lings, the need to take the marine dmg, but dont take mutch if you have CREEP and upgrades. Move with mutas and wait unitll the moments and magic box. Banes are brobably behind the lings and you HAVE to controll them when they get near the tanks so they dont hit them, and go after marines, im sure you meet many good terran marine splitters, but hey, we can spilt banes =) PS: i have ling/ bling on hotkey 1, but banes on hotkey 3 too. So then hotkeying them: mark blings, press and hold shift 1-3, i do the same then i have inf btw.
Ok, ive got this rigtht a few times: 1 move, 2 move, 1 a-attack, 2 S or H, 3 move banes/spilt. Its alot of micro, but its possible with some pratice. You units attack very cost efficient now.
When i have i have ling/bling inf and BL on 1, inf 2, BL/corrupter 3.

Un-used tactics
-Ok, this is somthing think ppl should do more, burrow blings where you KNOW the terran will go, this is not more riscky then sending a droppship you for drop realy... and the loss is way lower..
I like to burrow alittle away from creep, else the terran just scans it. This is great tactic when you have good mapcontroll.
-If you see a terran player going fe + macro cc on 2 mineralines. This is where i think terrans are too greedy where the limit goes. I say b-bust them, they wont have early tanks then cuz they need all the mins for cc's. If the the terran have a lot of helions, it migth be hard, but still possible i think, and you can reinforce so fast with lings compared to a roach bust. I think b-bust is not a cheese, in this setting, cuz the terran is eco cheesing you! This is the same as if a toss gets a gold base as his natural, and you dont whanna figth that at 12-15 min....

Hope this has brougth you some new ideas, og insigth of the game! Ill update this post if i have forgot something! =) GL&HF

PS: for gods sake, make a 3rd queen after your 1st 2 are done- anit air early game-anti early marine pressure- CREEEP!

Always engadge when you know its cost effective, if it's not, you are loosing.... - mmAudioslave =P


Quecksilver wrote:Never can. Always the same. I die to upgraded marines mid or late game.
Either my roach rush does enough damage so i'm so far ahead that i can win, or i die to marines in late game.
I'm thinking about cheesing every zvt from now on.

You'll probably say banes and infestors. Well the opponents i play know how to split them. My infestors and banes can't do much.
If I get to broodlord infestor, they just go around my army and kill my base, if i move out. If i don't move out i get dropped to death.
I feel like loosing 70 to 80 percent of my zvt. The ones I win are either when they fail cheese or when my roach rush does tons of damage.

Need some advice. Will post some replays if anyone tries to help.
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mmAudioslave
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Re: Can't deal with marines

Post  Quecksilver on Sat 10 Mar 2012 - 16:22

Thx for the huge post. Read it all.
Uprgrades and creep spread is my biggest flaw. I tried to pay attention to it, and realised how good they are.
ESPECIALLY CREEP!!!!! Have been spreading to little.

Still I will post some replays here when I have a game where I feel that I did well and still lost.
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Quecksilver
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Messages : 58
Date d'inscription : 2012-02-27
Age : 31
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